From Messy Middle to Maternity Leave
H: From messy middle to maternity leave! Today I’m chatting with Julia Bocchese! Julia is a Pinterest and SEO superstar. We actually met on Instagram about a year ago and met in person finally in September, and I’m finally getting her on the podcast.
J: Thanks so much for having me!
SEO & Pinterest Strategist
H: So, you do SEO and you do Pinterest. Can you tell me a little bit about how you got into that and sort of what your business looks like today? Because I’m sure that wasn’t popping out of a preschool dream.
J: Yeah, definitely not. I’m self taught with both of them! I started a travel blog about seven years ago. I actually learned SEO, marketing, social media, everything with that. Then when I wanted to quit my job to become a freelancer about five years ago, I was doing a lot of content writing for small businesses, a lot of marketing, and then I kind of realized that people didn’t know what SEO was when I was writing their content and it was starting to rank well on Google. That’s when I started transitioning into focusing on SEO and Pinterest.
I was doing Facebook and Instagram management for a while but I hated it, so I dropped those and focused on the search engines.
H: I was actually talking to someone for another podcast interview, and we were talking about how it feels like everyone starts out as a social media manager and then kind of figures out their own little area of marketing or online business from there.
J: Yeah, and this was right around the time when Instagram really started changing their algorithms, like, every week, and it was just annoying.
H: Yeah, I feel like you have to really love Instagram to be an Instagram manager. And I certainly don’t love Instagram that much. I feel like something I do notice, though, about your content is when I talk to a lot of people, they’re like, “oh, I hate showing up on social media, I hate being on Instagram, I hate this, I hate that.” But then they don’t really have a backup plan, whereas I feel like your main thing is SEO and Pinterest and having everything be optimized and have your leads come from Google, but you’re still always very consistent in showing up on social media. Is there a trick to that? Is it just something that you like? Give me the secret and let some of that rub off on me!
J: So, on Instagram, I do the absolute bare minimum. And I have done the bare minimum since I started my own account a few years ago. I post two times a week, and then I show up on stories when I feel like it, which most of the time I’m just posting photos of my dog just to be active on social media.
I reuse all of my content on Instagram. I’ve had some posts that I’ve been reusing for probably three years, and I kind of just update or tweak them. I have everything very streamlined, very basic. What I haven’t done is Instagram Reels. I think I’ve maybe done, like, one Instagram Live, but I do the bare minimum to stay active and stay connected with people.
H: Is Instagram (I’m assuming) not a very big source of leads for you, or do you feel like you’re getting some ROI on that bare minimum?
J: It’s really interesting. I have gotten a lot of leads from Instagram, but it’s typically not people who have been following me. Mainly, I think it’s people who are searching Instagram for SEO people, and they come across me. I don’t know if they’re searching for hashtags or account names or something like that. They come across my account, they message me, and they’re like, “oh, I need SEO help,” then we set up a call and go from there. It’s not actually people who have been following me, it’s people who use Instagram to find my services. That’s one reason why I do try to stay fairly active on Instagram, so I am reaching those people who are maybe searching hashtags or however they’re finding me that way.
H: That’s actually really interesting. On the Propegy Instagram account, we recently archived everything and only have like nine or 15 posts, so if someone does search for LinkedIn, they’ll come across our stuff. And I feel like there’s a trend moving towards that and kind of away from this personal brand personality based version of Instagram that I think the Instagram algorithm is trying to push on us. I think it’s interesting that as an SEO person, you can still find success on Instagram because you’re kind of using it for its own SEO purpose.
Julia’s Messy Middle
H: Okay, enough about Instagram. Let’s talk about the messy middle that this podcast is supposed to be about. So, you quit your job around five years ago to start freelancing, and you’ve been in your business for five years. When did you feel or did you notice a time when you stopped feeling like a beginner and started being like, “I know my shit, this is my jam. I am cool, calm, and collected,” or not feel like you ever had that transition?
J: I think I kind of made that transition happen. It’s also complicated because I didn’t start freelancing to have a business. I started freelancing in order to have a flexible schedule, to go to grad school for history, which has nothing to do with business whatsoever. Then I was in grad school for two years and near the end, in the second year, you have to kind of decide what you’re going to do. I was debating between applying for PhD programs or really diving into my business and making it a business.
Ultimately, obviously, I chose my business, which I do not regret. But that’s when I kind of made myself have that transition where I really started focusing on figuring things out and making sure I had processes streamlined and I was an expert in my field and all that thing.
H: Do you think it maybe made it a little bit easier to figure out the transition out of being a beginner because when you were a beginner, you had something else?I think that’s something that I felt a lot when I was in grad school and something didn’t go well or I had a client that sucked or something was just weird. I would just be like, “oh, it’s okay. I’m just freelancing until I figure things out.” Then once I graduated, I was like, “no, this has to be a real business now because I don’t have that student title to fall back on anymore.” Did you feel like you had a similar experience?
J: Definitely- because I thought I was going to have some sort of history career. I’m the type of person where I’m very organized and have most things figured out in business processes. But yeah, having something that I thought was going to be the main focus, I didn’t focus as much on my business as I did after I made that decision.
H: Now that you’ve maybe crossed that threshold into a more structured, less messy middle, can you think of any seemingly rookie mistakes or messy moments that you can share since then where you look back and are like, “oh, God, I Should have known better than this.”
J: Yeah, I mean, definitely a lot. At the beginning, I did not have very good boundaries with clients. Every time something happened I didn’t like or I thought someone crossed the line, I would add a boundary in a contract or in some sort of communication with the client. But one thing I was doing, that now I’m like “I can’t believe I did this,” I would do calls with clients over the phone. So they had my phone number, basically. And someone added me into a group text with a bunch of people. He was just texting a bunch of people, promoting his services. Then I was stuck in this group text forever, and I was just very angry about it. I don’t like people texting me unsolicited.
After that point, I was like, “no, it’s going to be zoom only.” Most of the time it’s audio over zoom, that way I’m not on video because I hate being on video too. Especially like with the pandemic, everyone got sick of being on video. That’s mostly for me, but I’m glad other people appreciate it too. Now, none of my clients have my phone number. No one can text me, call me, nothing. They can only communicate over email.
H: That’s really nice. I definitely have been on both sides of that spectrum where clients have had so much access to me, then I think I pulled back maybe a little bit too far and had too many walls in between me and my clients. I don’t know if I’ve told this story on here or just other places, but I had an account manager named Kayla, and people would just email her instead of me, and my auto responder was like, “oh, email Kayla, that’s how you access me.” Then Kayla left, and I just pretended to be Kayla for like six months because it was just nice to put people somewhere else and give myself the space to respond if I got an email on the weekend or whatever. Like, “oh, Kayla doesn’t work on the weekend, so she doesn’t tell me about them.”
That was maybe a little bit too far in the opposite direction. Now, I’m finding my own middle ground. Now I can say if we’re talking about this thing on Instagram, let’s move it over to my actual work email so that I don’t lose track of it. I’m feeling more confident in having that boundary as it helps me provide a better experience for my clients, but it also helps provide a better experience for me.
J: Oh, yeah, I definitely had people texting about project information. And I’m like, “I’m going to forget about this, it needs to be on my email so I can find it and search it easily.”
H: Yeah, I’m lucky I don’t forget about stuff that happens with my email. When it came to deciding to go into your business full time and really not doing the history thing anymore, was there any specific marketing tool, system tool or tactics that you used to ramp things up and take it to the next level? Or were you able to just take that increased capacity and increased focus time to really double down on your business?
J: I don’t think there’s any particular tool. I think once I kind of figured out that was what I was going to be focusing on, I reworked my packages and my pricing because I was doing a lot of one off small pieces of SEO. Someone was trying to pay me, like $100 just to compress a few images or something like that. That’s not worth my time and it’s not a lot of money.
I stopped doing these tiny pieces of SEO and focused on optimizing a full website and giving the client the full experience and also the benefits of that. It’s both for me but also for the client so they would actually have a better opportunity to rank higher rather than if you just do one little part of SEO. That might fix one little problem, but that’s not going to do much in the long run.
H: Yeah. And especially because SEO is such a long game. I’ve really struggled with focusing on SEO. I first started focusing on SEO when I met you and I enrolled in your course. Then I made my biggest messy middle mistake of at least that month, and just completely broke my website. You know this, our listeners do not. For any tech people, I reset the Z index on all of my images and text and everything, and it brought them all up to the same layer. Nothing was where it was supposed to be and it was a disaster. And I haven’t really focused on SEO. Because it is such a long game, it’s so easy to put it on the back burner.
How to Start Your SEO
H: Is there maybe a minimum time that you can expect to start looking out for results other than just like, it’s a long game? And do you have any incentive or motivation for those of us out there, like me, who just keep putting off SEO because we need to focus on a more immediate ROI?
J: In terms of seeing results, it completely varies. I think it mostly has to do with how your site is currently functioning and what’s going on with it and also your competition. As in if it’s easier or harder to outrank your competition. That can take a while or not long at all. I have worked with clients where they started seeing results within a week and started ranking higher because they have lower competition. Making a few small tweaks had a huge impact, whereas some larger sites that I’ve worked on that maybe had more competition needed more help. In that case, it took probably a couple of months to really start to see the results and start climbing in the rankings.
For brand new websites who haven’t launched our site before, it’s a new domain and everything like that, it’s going to take a while. A lot of times I see that Google isn’t even crawling or indexing a brand new site for at least like a month or two. That means that’s a month or two where you’re not being seen on Google at all, like, not even on page ten or 20 or something like that. So, brand new sites can take a while to be crawled by Google and also build up that trust with Google.
If you’ve been putting it off, it’s never too late. I actually posted about this on Instagram recently. I hosted this in person workshop three and a half years ago, charged $30-35, and had like five people there. But one of those people just hired me like two weeks ago to optimize her website. She waited three and a half years before deciding to actually get her website optimized. In between, she had done some of the things that she had learned from the workshop, but hadn’t really dove into SEO. She realized after three and a half years that she wasn’t going to get it done, so she passed it off to me. You are definitely going to get the results if you start now rather than if you wait three and a half years. But it’s never too late to start with optimization.
Quickly Optimizing Your SEO
H: I know you said that you no longer do those little bits and pieces of optimization for other people, but if someone maybe just wanted a little nugget to give themselves and maybe see a little bit of improvement before diving into a bigger project or hiring someone to do a longer term SEO project for them, are there one or two key things that most people have on their site that’s messing up their SEO? Something that they could change and see a small amount of change quickly?
J: I would say focusing on your website copy would be my top recommendation. I’ve seen people who have one sentence on their home page, and that is not giving Google enough information to know what to rank you for. It’s also not giving your potential clients any information at all. Make sure that you have enough website copy, like at least a few hundred words on a page. A lot of people talk about keywords and finding the right keywords and things like that, which is definitely beneficial. You want to make sure you’re targeting keywords that people are actually searching for. But then I find that once people find these keywords, they don’t actually use them.
I was just optimizing a wedding photographer’s website and she never once said on her home page that she’s a wedding photographer. If you don’t use this keyword, you’re not going to rank for it. It seems very common sense, but you need to tell Google what to rank you for. You also need to include your location if you’re a location-specific business. If you’re a Philadelphia wedding photographer, you need to say you’re a Philadelphia wedding photographer. Google is not going to put together that they think you’re located in Philadelphia and use the word wedding photographer and put that together for you. You need to be very clear, very explicit, and do that for potential clients so they know where you’re located.
H: That’s actually good news because it sounds like the tech stuff, like what I messed up, isn’t necessarily the low hanging fruit when it comes to making small but meaningful changes to your website. So, if you’re sitting out there thinking, “oh, I’m not tech savvy enough for SEO,” well, you could take a minute to research some keywords, infuse them into your copy and change that way before diving into a bigger SEO project where you can let a professional handle the text.
J: Yes. I would say a lot of times I don’t see huge tech issues with small websites unless you know that you’ve broken something. Probably the worst I’ve seen was when someone had a website and somehow they had marked all of their pages as no index, which meant they were telling Google not to look at their website. So, they weren’t ranking because they were telling Google not to look at their website. By removing that bit of code, that changed and Google was able to look at their website and rank them. If it’s something like that, it could be something technical, but most of the time it’s not.
Julia’s Offers & Packages
H: Earlier you had said you started out with social media.You didn’t want to offer social media anymore and then really honed in on your packages and pricing for SEO and Pinterest. We haven’t really talked about Pinterest yet, but when it comes to creating packages, pricing packages, deciding what offers to keep and what offers to send to your offer graveyard, what does that process look like for you when you’re looking at your workload and your options that you have for people to work with you?
J: I think a lot of times it comes down to what I feel like people need in the moment. I probably haven’t sent any packages to the graveyard lately, but I probably need to look at them again. I feel like my packages are fairly straightforward, but I have added on some new packages. One is specifically for brand new websites because they don’t need as much, especially technical work. If it’s a brand new website, they likely don’t have a million broken links. It’s better to have a package specifically for new websites that isn’t as comprehensive as my larger SEO package because they don’t need that.
Last month, I launched a new Pinterest Service that’s kind of like half DIY, half management because I’ve been finding more and more people want to do Pinterest themselves, but they’re overwhelmed with the getting started piece. I do the setup, create templates and then we have a strategy call to create a strategy for them, help them going forward and things like that. That way, they have everything set up and ready to go and then they can take it over themselves. Because I’ve been finding a lot of people are interested in the more DIY option, I just launched that service last month. I probably haven’t dealt with any packages lately, but as I’m finding what people are interested in or what they need, if they don’t need my more comprehensive packages, then I kind of launch a new service off of that.
H: And I mean, as long as you have the workflows and the bandwidth to support all of those different packages, which I know you’re a very organized person, but that doesn’t strike me as something you struggle with. I feel like there was a trend for a while that said you have one offer for one person at one price point and you never deviate from that. I think we’re definitely heading into a zone where people have a lot more options, a lot more flexibility, a lot more different access points to work with you. And I think as long as you’re able to manage that on your own end, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Julia’s Pinterest Team
H: Now I guess on the back end, specifically on the Pinterest side of things, what does your team look like? I know you’ve mentioned having some people on your team, but I also feel like you do a lot of yourself. Can you talk about your team a little bit or what the experience you’ve had hiring team members has been like?
J: My team is pretty small and it’s just contractors. I do not have employees, I don’t think I want to ever have employees and have to deal with that. Right now I have consistently two Pinterest contractors and one SEO contractor. Sometimes I’ll bring on the second one for other projects, but for Pinterest they actually do, I would say the bulk of the work. I do most of the strategy, setting up keyword research, that kind of thing. They do most of the actual management for my clients.
In terms of SEO, that is something I have not really passed off much yet, especially because SEO is so nuanced and it’s so specific to every single website. You can’t just do the same thing for every website that you work with. I’ve only passed off smaller tasks with my SEO projects, so doing a lot of more basic things like image, alt, text or updating product descriptions with fresh keywords and that kind of thing. For SEO I am doing probably 90-95% of the projects.
H: Awesome. When it comes to handing off some of the doing after you’ve done the strategy for Pinterest, what did the process look like for you to figure out how to hand that off? Because I know when I was in more of an agency style with my business, something I really struggled with was getting the nuance and the thought process that turned into the strategy from the client meetings and getting that across to the people on my team so that they understood it. How did you figure out how to relay that to your Pinterest support team?
J: I would say I focused on finding contractors that were experienced with Pinterest, so they’re not someone who is brand new to Pinterest and is trying to start a Pinterest Business while also working for me. They have their own businesses, so they’re very familiar with Pinterest. They are keeping up with all the trends because they have their own Pinterest clients and things like that. It was definitely easier to work with them, tell them about my processes. They understand things I didn’t need to really explain, like how Pinterest works or something like that. Yeah, it is more expensive to hire someone who is more experienced and has their own business, but since they’re one of my first hires, that was something I wanted to do, was find someone who was more experienced and I didn’t have to train and watch over.
For SEO, I haven’t quite found someone who’s super experienced to be able to pass off a bunch of stuff. I know a lot of experienced SEO people, but they’re just so busy that they wouldn’t have time to help me out with projects and things like that. Pinterest has been a little easier to find contractors who are experienced that I can easily work with.
H: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think something that I’ve noticed with developers, it can be difficult to find a developer that also speaks designer. So, when you’re able to find a developer who’s able to get that right brain/ left brain mix, they’re very busy, expensive, and in high demand. I kind of feel like SEO might be the writer’s version of that. It’s hard to find someone who understands the strategy, understands the concepts, but then also understands working with women in business and working in the way that we’ve built our businesses. It just is how it is, and it doesn’t need to make sense, and I don’t need to explain it to you.
No shade to any developers out there. I’ve just had some weird experiences on Upwork and I’m projecting.
J: Yeah, I definitely agree. Developers are hit or miss. I find a lot of times that hiring developers for one off projects is great. But sometimes people who have a developer on their team are definitely focused on their role and not so much design, SEO, or something like that because they’ve been hired specifically for this one role. And then that can cause some friction sometimes.
Preparing for Maternity Leave
H: Yeah, definitely. So, I wanted to ask some maternity leave questions. As we speak, you are heading into taking your maternity leave. When it came to preparing for maternity leave, or I guess even rewinding further, like realizing that you were going to have to take a maternity leave, did you feel calm, cool, and collected? Or was it like, “oh, shit I have to figure out how to make this work?”
J: I think probably somewhere in between because I started planning for maternity leave before I was even pregnant. I saved up a bunch of money specifically for maternity leave. And then I started hiring the Pinterest contractors that I work with over a year ago both for pre planning for maternity leave and because my workload is getting pretty heavy. It kind of killed two birds with one stone. There was still a lot that I had to figure out aside from passing off work and things like that. It’s been interesting, especially this past month, kind of getting the last pieces together because I’m going on material in two weeks, and projects that I thought were going to be finished months ago still aren’t.
I’ve had to hire an SEO contractor to finish those projects while I’m out. There were some things with weird Pinterest glitches this month that I had to deal with and realize there might be glitches while I’m out. My team members need to also know how to communicate that to my clients and get the information for my clients and things like that.
I’m also super organized. I feel like I have prepared probably more than I need to at this point. But I also feel like there might be things that come up that I haven’t thought about. So it’s a weird thing, planning for something where you’re going to be out for a while and you have no idea what’s going to happen while you’re gone.
H: Are you planning on checking out completely and going off grid for your maternity leave? Or do you think you’re still going to have a finger on the pulse and see what’s going on? Checking emails and stuff like that, but not an obligation to work?
J: Yeah, I feel like I’m probably going to have to check my email. I’m not replying to emails. I have written out email scripts for my team members to know how to reply to client questions and whatever, unless there’s some weird crazy emergency or for some reason my invoicing system is bouncing everyone’s payments or something crazy like that, I’m planning on being pretty checked out for probably at least two months and then see how I feel at that point.
H: Well, we’re recording this in July. For our listeners, this episode is going to come out sometime in October. Do you have any messages for future Julia? Either for maternity leave or like in the thick of maternity leave? Do you want to make any predictions? Do you want to give yourself advice?
J: Try to sleep? Who knows! Yeah, this is my first kid, so I have no idea what to expect from a newborn. I guess take as much time as I need. One of my fears is definitely coming back to my business and everyone’s kind of forgotten about me. So trying to get new business is something that I’ve been thinking about. Hopefully when I come back, there will be people at least waiting for me or have sent inquiries while I’m out.
H: Well, hopefully everyone who listens to this episode is like, “let’s have Julia do my SEO!” Thinking about coming back from maternity leave and also looking at your workflows and your schedule now, what does your work week look like now? And what’s your position on that looking like post maternity leave? Do you want to return back to what you’re doing right now or do you anticipate taking a more slow approach once you return?
J: I think I’ll probably take a slow approach to returning at least for the first couple of weeks. But I do want to come back to kind of what I’ve been doing, what my schedule is now. I really don’t work 8 hours a day, like a full workday. I like having the flexibility. I’m going to go grocery shopping sometime in the afternoon. And also with being pregnant, it has kind of lessened my workload forcibly because I have just been so tired and not sleeping. This morning I had to take a nap before I got to work, which I don’t like- not diving into work first thing in the morning.
H: Waking up and taking a nap is such a vibe though. Like that’s how my dog must feel everyday.
J: Yes, I know! I slept on the couch with my dog the whole time, I don’t think she moved at all. When I come back I think I will come back to what my schedule has been. I usually will have very focused work, I would say for probably 4 hours and then you know, fill the rest of time with marketing or planning. The one thing I’m not too sure about is my call schedule when I come back, because I have no idea what the baby’s nap schedule is going to be like. I might not schedule calls unless I do get childcare pretty early on, so I don’t have a screaming baby in the background or something like that. Right now I only do calls two days a week, so it might just be one day a week. I have no idea.
H: I mean, fortunately, I think the one thing that COVID has given all of us is a lot more patience with other people and having things going on in the background. I remember when I was in college when they were preparing us for video interviews for jobs, make sure your background is pristine, no cords, no smudges, tell your parents not to walk through. Now, it’s like, “oh, my boyfriend says hi and my dog’s barking and that’s just life.” I do think that that’s something that we’ve been able to give each other a lot more grace for after Covid. If you do have a screaming baby, I know I will still happily sit on that call with you.
Julia’s Entrepreneurship Meet Up
H: So finally, before we go, I just wanted to ask about the entrepreneurship meetup that you host and that I go to. Can you just talk a little bit about how it started and how you got to be the one hosting it?
J: I think it started two or three years ago, it was before the Pandemic. It started as a mastermind group for people local to Philly, specifically small business owners. I think most everyone in the group was a full time business owners because we met during the day. At the time, I didn’t know many people who had businesses in Philly who were around my age. The networking groups I had been in were all like 50 year old men. It was not my jam.
It went virtual through the Pandemic and then towards the end of mid 2021, I think people were really sick of zoom. We made it into this more casual meet up that it is today. Now we’re meeting back in person, but that way people didn’t feel pressure to join. It’s been through some transitions. It’s been a way to just talk business casually. There’s no, like, agenda. It’s really nice to rant, do whatever.
H: It’s nice to just get to leave the house and talk to people. And when you complain about something that’s going on in business and their response isn’t just, “well, you could get a full time job.” It’s nice to talk to people who get that.
Transitioning from Freelance to Academic Work
H: I did lie, though. I have one more question. So you taught SEO at Drexel for how many semesters?
J: Two semesters.
H: Are you still doing it?
J: I’ve done one full semester, and then I’ve been a guest lecturer at Temple for, I think, about a year.
H: Okay, so how did you get into that? What was that process like for you? And do you have any advice for anyone out there who is interested in doing some type of academic work that’s not trying to become a tenure track?
J: I got started because I knew someone who was teaching a web development class at Drexel. She brought me in for a few of her classes to talk about the SEO side, the technical parts of web development and things like that. Then she connected me with the department head because they didn’t have an SEO class at the time. She connected me with him to start up this SEO class. Then it got crazy because it was during 2020. They’re bringing it back I think in the spring, and hopefully I will have childcare by then.
But I would say I think it’s easy to find kind of like lecturing positions with marketing and things like that. I think it’s harder to create your own course or something like that. Drexel is very tech focused, so that’s why they were interested. But your average university might not be super interested if you are more into marketing or web development or web design or something like that. I would say if you are interested and you are in a more technical or marketing kind of field, probably trying to find a university that would be interested would be good. I was checking out different departments around here to see who might also be interested in having an SEO class and there aren’t many. There are a lot of universities that don’t have any sort of business department or business classes or something like that. You may have to do a little research if you are interested in teaching a full class on something that is not being currently offered.
H: How do you feel, like pros and cons about teaching at an actual university versus creating an online course and selling it or doing it live that way? Do you feel a greater sense of satisfaction over one or the other? Is there any preference or do you like having both?
J: I think they’re different. I will say for selling the courses I have to small business owners, they’re way more invested because they will get the ROI. If they start ranking higher, their business is going to start making more money and things like that. Whereas a college student, they aren’t as invested. Some might be really interested in a topic because that’s what they want their job to be in, so they will pay attention. But there are a lot of students I had who just would show up and not care that much. So I think they’re very different audiences. I would say I enjoyed both. I enjoy teaching the students who are very invested and very interested. There were definitely a few students that I had who already had their own websites, were selling small products or a blog or something like that. They were a little bit more interested because they could see how SEO would help their current websites, whereas a lot of students weren’t going to continue with SEO after the class, so they were more checked out.
And also if they’re college students, they are not paying extra for the class, whereas if you’re selling a product to a business, you do have to sell more because you’re trying to get them to pay. So if you don’t like selling, then a college class might be better. But if you do want to work with people who are more invested, I would say your own course might be a better path.
H: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Now, tell people where they can find you and hang out more and see your new cute baby!
Where to Find Julia
J: My website is www.juliareneeconsulting.com. You can find me on LinkedIn at Julia Bocchese. I think if you search Julie Renee Consulting, you can find me on LinkedIn because I know Bocchese is not easy to spell. My maiden name was way easier to spell. You can also connect with me on Pinterest. If you do want to see my very minimal marketing work on Instagram, you can follow me at @juliareneeconsulting. I do post a lot more dog photos on Instagram than LinkedIn.
